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So, I'm really confused by Oceania, Australia, and Australasia. Can we work out some kind of reasonable geographical hierarchy, starting from this page? Or are there some areas here that don't belong in Oceania?

New Zealand shows up in Polynesia and Australasia... there are a couple of other overlapping areas. Can we map out the "real" ones, and put in advisory ones as notes? --Evan 12:51, 8 Dec 2005 (EST)

[edit] Unnecessary Hierarchy

Following up on the observations above, and now that Australasia has been removed from the main page in favour of Oceania, I think the whole Oceania/Australasia, Oceania/Polynesia etc is now unnecessary hierarchy. I propose the hierarchy go from Main Page -> Oceania -> Country (or other Destination).

The reasons for this are..

• Australasia and Polynesia are poorly defined, and will probably always be confusing.

• There are few enough destinations to be covered comfortably is an expanded Oceania article.

• The regions are unfamiliar and obscure even to the seasoned traveller. I have been to many of the destinations in Oceania, but I really could not tell you which were in Melanesia (for example). Hierarchies should categories information into familiar groupings, but nearly all the countries listed in the grouping are more familiar than the grouping itself.

• Redundant hierarchies and meaningless groupings lead inevitably to bad articles, and bad articles so high in the project hierarchy reflect badly on the project. We should avoid these where possible.

• The fact that these articles have been around so long, and have such poor content would indicate that they are probably redundant.

And - even if anyone considers it desirable to keep Melanesia, Polynesia or Micronesia, I would argue that Australasia is still redundant, as a grouping for only Australia, New Zealand and possibly Papua New Guinea. These major regional countries would expected to be listed at the Oceania level anyway, and Australasia really is a nothingness.

--Inas 23:17, 9 November 2008 (EST)

I think you're pretty much dead on with this. We already list all the countries and territories on this page anyway, and we're clearly not developing anything very worthwhile on the subregion pages. I agree that Australasia is not a useful grouping at all—there's really very little in common between New Zealand and Papua New Guinea. Much of the little that has been written in these subregional articles could simply be deleted at little cost, and what's important could be merged into this article. A shame, though, to make that nice map redundant! Anyway, you have my support in this, but it might be best to wait a while and see what a certain Cacahuate thinks. --Peter ^Talk 18:07, 10 November 2008 (EST)

I agree. Keep smiling, ee ^talk 18:09, 10 November 2008 (EST).

yeah, ditch em... that map was a bitch, but I'll revise it and then upload the SVG soon, if you'll take care of making the article changes and isin changes – cacahuate ^talk 17:40, 14 November 2008 (EST)

Alright, I got rid of the region drawings on the map... I left the titles though, is that at all helpful, or just confusing? I can ditch them too... are we going to get rid of the various 'nesias in our hierarachy? I don't see a real need for them here, I agree we can just go Oceania -> Country. Any naysayers? – cacahuate ^talk 01:19, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Get rid of the 'nesias? Just when I was thinking to add more! What are we going to do about Polymelanesia, Austropolesia, Indo-australesia, Australopolesia and Indopolesia?? Texugo 01:43, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Not to mention Amnesia. Texugo 02:14, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Polynesia and Australasia are gone. Micronesia - all the places that are on article page are already on the Oceania page, however there are quite a few other little islands and US dependencies that are isin Micronesia, but not on the article page. I've had a go at tidying up the Line Islands page, I think disambig works best there, because I don't think a region split between two countries works well. Like New Guinea I guess. Anyway, I'm just proceeding slowly on Micronesia - pausing for thought, trying not to clutter too much. If anyone wants to jump in with ideas, I'm open as always.. --Inas 17:18, 19 November 2008 (EST)

Good job working through this Inas! Keep smiling, edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 17:26, 19 November 2008 (EST).

Done a survey around the office. Of about 30 people, 23 didn't know where Micronesia was, or could name any country in it. The other 7, after some additional questioning, it turned out they were thinking about the FSM. My inclination is now to redirect Micronesia to the Federated States of Micronesia, put a link to a disambig page at the top of that page, indicating that some other regional countries are also sometimes considered as part of a region called Micronesia, and create an appropriate disambig page. All the countries themselves will then be isIn Oceania. Will proceed soon, barring objections, and wrap this up. --Inas 18:48, 23 November 2008 (EST)

Good Idea Inas, but it's sad you're office workers didn't know that. I know where Micronesia is placed (not exactly) and I live on a totally diff continent! Keep Smiling, edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 19:05, 24 November 2008 (EST).

Okay, all done. Micronesia has joined the other nesias in the big skynesia. It felt good getting rid of Australasia, confusing and unnecessary. Polynesia also felt right, with everything from Hawaii to New Zealand claiming membership - no clarity to the region at all. Micronesia less so. It does seem to be a much more well defined cultural region, with much less significant populations.. --Inas 19:30, 24 November 2008 (EST)

Looks good to me. It makes a lot more sense this way. Thanks for your efforts. Texugo 19:59, 24 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] East Timor

Surely not in Oceania? And if it is then you have to include all the Indonesian islands that surround it, plus West Timor and if you include them you might as well include the Philippines. Yes, definition is difficult but I do feel that East Timor is pushing the boundaries of Oceania a bit too much, even if it is only a stone's throw from Australia.Shep 07:20, 27 August 2009 (EDT)

I don't know, geographically you are probably right, but I've always thought culturally the European (Portuguese) influence moves it closer to Oz, NZ and French Polynesia, than Indonesia - and yeah, I know Indonesia was Dutch and the Philippines Spanish/American - but the influence seems much less pronounced in these modern countries, than in East Timor, and was to great extend to underlying reason to the armed conflict. Although Wikipedia does put in Southeast asia. --Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 08:37, 27 August 2009 (EDT)

I have to agree with Roundtheworld, East Timor should be in Asia. It is a future member of ASEAN, and all the Indonesian islands around it are considered part of Asia as well. And indeed, even Philippines and Taiwan could be considered Oceania, but I think travelers would recognize it better as being Asian. Globe-trotter 17:21, 31 August 2009 (EDT)

I made a few additions to Oceania and deleted East Timor.Shep 05:08, 1 September 2009 (EDT)